The merging of the grids, Teen and Main all in one
What was a rumour seems that will be a reality soon. Philip Linden in his interview in Metanomics yesterday and Blue Linden in this Plurk started by Damien Fate talked about it. Teen Grid and Main Grid may merge soon *insert here screams and sounds of people running and shouting*.
Well, Philip said a lot of interesting things i may comment in other posts, but today i’d like to center my attention about this particular issue, the merging of the grids. And, as always, i just pretend to show my personal opinion, nothing more… but nothing less too.
Personally i think the situation now is not good for the Teen Grid residents, they have access to a really small grid, with not much content and they are, someway, “closed in their golden cage”. I agree that the merging of the grids may be something really good for them, and they will have the possibility of sharing, learning and teaching with other creators and residents, may permit to share the experience of SL with their parents, but i have some doubts about this process.
My doubts are not specially related to “Mature” content and how “teens” can access to it, the internet itself is full of really mature content really easy to access to people even under 5 years, as an example, the daughter of a friend of mine was looking in the Internet for photos of bears and well, you can imagine what she found. Moreover the Main Grid has a lot of underage people, they are not a huge number, but from time to time Linden Lab has to close accounts of teens using Main Grid, so if they find some i’m sure that means there are more than “only a couple”. Also, i think is not the responsibility of Linden Lab to “control” the access to “Mature” content of teens (well, their responsibility may be to “mark” or “indicate” where the “Mature” content is), the responsibility of controlling that access is in the parents. Also well, some teen residents are much more mature than some of the main grid residents, seriously.
What makes me feel worried is how Linden Lab will face that change and what they do about it, specially thinking about how tabloids can use, abuse and distort the reality. I think they may need to work hard on PR and, well, lately seems not to be their best area of work. I know there are some technological tools LL may use to inform clearly about the contents, but the definition of Mature is diffuse in some areas and may change depending the culture or the country, and due this we saw some sad incidents in the last SL5B and in Burning Life in 2007. Linden Lab should clearly define what is Mature content and what is not, and should respect the right of creating and accessing mature content for mature users. So the issue here is not technological, is totally about PR and moral under my point of view.
So what makes me worry is not how bad it can be for teens, because i think it will be really good for them, what worries me is how that may affect our user experience, the right we have in this moment to express, create and live in the way we want.
Image by Daniel Voyager published under a Creative Commons license.
59 Responses to “The merging of the grids, Teen and Main all in one”
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I’m afraid this is just one more thing to go down on the list of reasons why I may well not return to SL at all. Something there is still calling me, but the reasons not to be there just keep piling up and that makes me very sad
Well, the reason LL established the Teen Grid as separate from the Main Grid in the first place was, not just to keep teenagers away from “mature” content, but to keep adult predators away from teenage users. Is the second part of that concern any less valid today? LL didn’t need THAT kind of negative publicity then, and doesn’t now.
I’m so happy about this, near ecstatic over it, as are a great number of the teens I’ve been talking to. Our group chat got flooded today with people cheering, and at a time when few teens are even online, that’s quite a feat.
My biggest issue right now is with the adults who are being negative. Have you ever been online at a time that signups are shut down, and all your friends are offline? Wasn’t it boring? That’s how TSL is pretty much all the time. There are many teens already on the Main Grid, because signups are so lax there and so difficult here. If a teen is still on the TG and is quietly protesting the separation from there, they should be applauded, because they’re following the rules, even if they hate them, and bringing about change in a civil manner. Blue Linden himself has said that many adults are less mature than most teens are. I really wish people would stop being so doom-and-gloom over this. Your sex industry isn’t going to die (LL isn’t that stupid) and you’re probably not going to be pushed into a few tiny sims. As long as you’re not running about PG sims with your freenis waving in the wind, I doubt you’ll suffer much.
So they are going to let pre-teen and younger into the main grid??? Are they insane!! This should be good, when a 10 year old is asking mom “What’s a ponygirl?” O.o
Why do I have the feeling that this will open the box of “informing landowners” about mature content on their place by LL and a sudden ban on so far undefined mature things?
Right. Because that was the way LL did their public relations like that until now:
Do not mention, policy on surprise, open a comment function with 150 slots which no one at LL ever reads.
It is a common assumption and stereotype that all Teens are for the grid merge. That is totally untrue and I’d say that the majority of Teens are against it. This is purely a money making move. LL want an excuse to drain more money out of Teens. Here it is! But they are hiding this behind a wall of crap. The Teen Grid has a lot of problems – true. But LL is resolving to destroy the grid, instead of fix the problems. I’m not putting up with this.
Im worried this is going to turn into another IMVU and a witch hunt on all adult developers and users. if they merg it wont belong all adult content will be gone taken out of inventory riped off stolen, and devs will be treated like porn mongers as they are in IMVU…all the money invested by adults here to have fun will have been spent in vain…and we will again be fleeing seeking the adult land sl had taken from us. what will we all end up at jewel of indra? gag spit i hope not but the future of sl looks like gastopO on the rise…
No one said anything about pre-teens, afaik. It will still be 13+. And if you don’t think that there are teens on the adult grid already, you’re a fool.
P2
I just had a read through that and also a large discussion with members of my group about it, every one of us feels that this will undoubtedly destroy sl and am also in full agreement with a previous comment about the seperation of the grids to help reduce the chance of younger members becoming involved with predators online.
In short, the merger is a VERY BAD idea and could destabalise everything linden has worked so hard to give us.
In game I am tantulous Lupindo
Idea of merging the grids is the DUMBEST thing I’ve heard. Adult things happen in the MG and since most AVs look adult it might be nice if we could be reasonably sure the person behind the toon IS adult. If the floodgates are opened and the rugrats flood in, then the mature users will be censored and the content dumbed down, (just like in the US educational system). The argument that the TG is crappy and the little crumb crushers deserve better won’t hold up. If the TG is SO bad, then I suggest Linden Lab FIX it, instead of turning all SL into a kiddie’s playground. Brats need not apply!
There won’t be much worry of children being exposed to things they ought not be exposed to. The fact is anything questionable will be removed. “How can they do this?” you ask. “We’ve built you up LL don’t deny us!” you’ll scream. But the fact is that SL has always been planned to be an educational tool, family affair and a marketing machine. If they continue to let everything go on full of sex, violence and other obscenities as it is then the U.S. Gov. will never support them, universities will not support them and large corporations which LL would love to sponsor them or sell their products through them will never come on board. You can shout that they will lose your business, but most of us will remain addicted and assimilate. LL should look at current studies to find that virtual shopping for your RL life is not very well received at this point. I am sure, however, as the next generation grows this will be a fun way for them to interact with others around the world. So I can say I see what you’re doing LL, I can understand the marketing problems with the world of SL as it is at this point. However I will never agree with what you have done and I will continue to fear that the things I enjoy in SL will be taken away in order to perpetuate the status quo.
During book discussions, we’ve been bothered by teens. At other times too. They’ve littered, danced naked around seated audience members (stepping on them sometimes), interrupted discussions. We don’t need more of that.
Does every teen do that–of course not! But it’s happening too often now.
Adults put in serious time preparing for discussions and the vast range of other activities on the Main Grid.
Check the Search–> Events pages. For any hour you can name on a weekend, there are 60+ listed events.
On weekdays it ranges from 30-50 per each hour.
If you add teen events, the competition will be heavier.
EVERY listed event will first have to state a target audience as Grown-up or Teen. Don’t assume you can just list it as “Adult” or “Mature” because teens will assume those words mean it has something to do with sex.
Don’t ignore the fact that there are adults who WILL solicit teens–in SL and offline.
If the Teen Grid is insufficient in scope and available activities, WHY NOT EXPAND the TEEN GRID?
I think this is a bit ridiculous.. LL at the moment seems to be trying to merge everything.. first onrez and slx now this?
what about the people who roleplay as teenagers such as myself?
i dont want to be treated as if i am one.. and having the possibilities of ACTUAL teens running around could very much mix that up.
i dont think that putting it up to the parents to monitor their kids will help much because the second parents hear “its a video game” they dont think twice, assuming its fine for the kid.
i think their will have to be more monitoring if they are together rather then if they are separate cuz you know when they arent together they cannot cause problems..
were as if there is any pedophiles that attempt to get a hold of some children, there could be a couple of lawsuits at hand.
Thanks everybody for your comments and points of view. As Phoenix points there are already some teens in the Main Grid (of course, cheating about their real age while opening the account). So the problems is already there.
Anyway, even i think that merging may have some good consecuences for some Teen Grid residents it may have also bad one for adults and teens, and that’s what worries me. I really hope Linden Lab finds a way to make the transition as easy as possible, but i’m sure this will affect our SLifestyle, and that doesn’t make me happy.
This issue has been floating about for well over a year. It wasnt a good idea then and it isnt now. It was obvious that LL was thinking that they would merge grids when all in the main grid were invited to age verify. Its been a slow process which appears to be accelerating recently.
Think about it one of the “abuse report” categories is “mature content in a PG area”. This includes reporting a profile! So it is pretty well a given that LL have every intention to merge grids with or without the main grids adult members agreeing or not.
Firstly we all know kiddies get on the main grid easily as there isnt the issue of waiting weeks for LL to verify you like with the teen grid. Those kiddies when you stumble across them are ANNOYING! I understand that some adults on the grid are silly too, but they are adults! I dont want to have to watch my P’s and Q’s around these little folk.
Having kiddies all over the grid will be a major pain, as most content will have to be modified to PG rules.
One of my friends has kids on the teen grid and although she loves them dearly I KNOW she wont be happy as she is a bondage mistress in SL………. not something u want your littlies knowing you are partaking in! So the only way she can stop her kids knowing is to ban them from her island and block her profile from them or totally PG it.
What concerns me the most is that when they merge the pedos will be out in force creating underage avatars themselves and thus giving them opportunity to have contact with minors and more over “potential victims”
I am pretty sure the initial contact will be via secondlife and continue via MSN or another out of world chat client and will have disastrous consequences for not only the kids and families involved but for LL.
I can see the lawsuits NOW.
Good luck LL but MY monthly account payments will not support your litigation fund.
I have been thinking about cancelling my paying account due to the constant lag and grid issues, also selling my land. And with the grid merger I will be getting rid of both.
Thanx be to god for xstreet as I can still trade but I wont be actively contributing to LL dollars.
This is just like letting children into a pub.
If there are teens already on the MAIN grid, what makes you think that the TEEN grid is safe from pedophiles? Aye, merging the grids has it’s pros and cons but seriously, just because you think that your sex empire will be wiped, or your slaves will be forced to run free doesn’t mean that teens shouldn’t be allowed in here. Over 30% of those slaves are undoubtedly teens under the age of 16, verified accounts or not as was pointed out in an inworld group today, it’s not that hard to steal some ID from Mommy or Daddy. If the Teen Grid is insufficient why don’t you first attempt to fix it and then think about allowing teens into certain areas of the Main Grid.
From a content creator’s standpoint this is very exciting, I have to say. As somebody who builds avatars/avatar accessories, this will bring a lot of new business. I agree with inevitible downsides though, it will be unfortunate if things need to change to incorporate the new residents, however I question how it will personally impact many of us who don’t actually partake in “adult activities” or visit “adult locations”
Ok I hate to say this but SL will change alot when this happens…..I wil tell you why…Alot of mature RP goes on in SL and the main grid is big on Strip clubs and other things that kids do not need to see and what you are going to get is alot of long time SL users leaving for a good reason…cause we will be forced to tone down the content..Wonder if Theworld is like SL lol. its a thought
if LL goes through with this merger I plan on initiating a class action lawsuit against LL as well as boycotting LL. as I have too much adult stuff to lose and this merger will ruin the SL I know and love making it worthless to me.
Bad, bad idea. Letting kids into an adult based world. I don’t care if they only have access to PG sims or not. Anyone can go onto a PG sim and pick someone up and take them somewhere to do whatever. Completely not a good idea. The lure for most people was the fact that this was a adult community. A place adults could express themselves, explore different ways of living, enjoying freedoms. You are putting all of that in jeapordy. I can’t imagine the number of lawsuits that could come from this. Just so wrong I can’t even say. I imagine we will lose the many freedoms that we have here that make our SL experience fun. Well, when that happens it’s time to go. Lord knows I am already tired of the grid issues that have been going on.
Merging will not be too bad, I am a former resident of thee teen grid, I graduated back in February of 08. Most teens are mature, to the point where their not going to cause problems. And ALL teens will only be allowed in PG sims, Mature will be complete off limits. So no, you can have all the sex oriented stuff you want in a Mature sim, No teen will ever be allowed there…
The sky is not falling. Yet. Just because the powers that be had the idea of merging Teen/Main grid as a long term goal, does not mean it will happen tomorrow, or next year, or even the year after that. A merger has it’s pros and cons, and some of those cons may be legal liability for Linden Labs if some teen who is “officially” allowed to access the Main runs into adult only content and suddenly their PARENTS start screaming lawsuit. But I think what Linden Labs is aiming for, is for Second Life to be a medium like the Internet is a medium. Where users have their private domains and are responsible for the content of said domains, the way web page owners are in the internet. Meaning, Second Life would be “the internet” and users access it with the viewer aka browser. Now that said, I think Linden Labs is in for more trouble than they are anticipating, because there is no singular “owner” of the internet, LL is the known “owner” of Second Life and could be held accountable for it’s content, despite disclaimers to the contrary. I don’t think LL will try to erase adult content from the main grid, otherwise it will be just like the Teen Grid so what would be the point? But I think it will try to push the onus of any potential lawsuit or legal thorny issue onto the individuals using SL.
I foresee several issues in the future if the two grids merge. One, access to a singular Grid may mean Account creation could become harder. There could be new stipulations to creating new accounts, possibly new global programed restrictions on non-verified accounts in what they are able to access In World. Example if your account is not verified, you might not be able to enter any sim/region set to Mature. Ultimately what could happen in Worst Case, is we get all the problems of Both Grids lumped together in the same Grid, Best Case scenario, we get some of the better qualities of both Grids combined in one Grid. Now we all know some problems WILL arise if grids merge. System/programing problems as two separate grids become one are inevitable.
I think SL isn’t on the verge of merge though. It’s STILL trying to get it’s age verification junk sorted out. That was supposed to go LIVE last summer, and it is so far NOT in effect as yet. So my philosophy is not fear food poisoning from the potential chicken stew when the chicken hasn’t yet been caught, killed, plucked, and stuffed in the stew pot.
Bliss Crimson, Main Grid
Illegal content, such as drugs, guns, gambling etc, is freely accessible on the Internet, to the same 5 year old, and therefore it should be made available on the main grid. It is an absurd idea, no more absurd than using the accessibility of mature or adult content, which is in many regarded as illegal content.
The quantity and quality of the Teen content should not be the basis for building an argument for merging the grids. The simple solution here is to increase the quantity and quality of their content.
Just as there was no clear definition on the purpose of Open SIMs, there is no clear definition on Mature Content, and this needs to tied down. It is clear from the residents that I have heard discussing this merger, they are clearly against it. Furthermore, many express that the idea of adults role playing as children on the main grid is inappropriate. My personal view on this merger is that the residents should decide on whether they want it. I for one certainly do not. I am also not fully convinced that Linden Labs have fully understood the implications of such a merger, nor taken into the future possible legal ramifications of this action. Nor do I believe that they are fully aware of legal actions that may result because of just such a merger. Yes, they have probably discussed these things at length, and have probable solutions to such things, but as we all know, our plans seldom go as we perceive them to go.
Therefore, Linden Labs, pay heed to your residents on this issue, and do not merge the grids.
I find it amazing how many parents continually are not held responsible, nor hold themselves responsible, for the content their children are exposed to in their daily lives. Want an example? Walk the halls of a public school during class break.
World of Warcraft is an online game with a Teen rating. There are no limits put upon age, nor content withheld for any age ranges. Thus, adults that play also play with teens as young as 10. If most of the parents knew the language and conversations they were exposed to as well as partaking in they would not be allowed to play.
Same goes for Teen grid I’m sure. All LL will be doing is creating the temptation to be exposed to mature content in the adult grid even more so. THAT is not good. It means WE as adult partakers of the adult grid as it stands will be held responsible for what teens are exposed to if they merge the grids. It means WE as adults will find more and more limits and more rules forced upon us, all in the name of taking responsiblity for the content that an adult’s child will be exposed to.
It’s easy enough for a teen to get into the adult grid as it stands. Promoting it is the worst idea.
“This is just like letting children into a pub.”
Does everyone in SL really just spend all day everyday just having digital sex? Is that really what we’re suggesting is all which happens in SL?
Actually I think it’s more like letting teenages into a city. It’s kinda logical. Not all of SL is just a gaint sex club. Like a city, there is adult clubs and there is schools, shops, dance clubs. Just need to properly manage who can get where. Simple!
Kids are allowed to walk past a pub in the street aren’t they? But they just have to show ID to get in. Why can’t we do the same in SL? It works pretty damn well in reality.
Oh and to those ignorant people who think teens aren’t already in the main grid, I think you need to go back to the teen grid yourself, grow up a few more years.
@ Amd: The Grid Merge group have over 740 members – the majority of active teen members are for it. You, if I remember correctly, fled from the TG over to the MG after having a hissyfit when your movement didn’t go over as planned and your old friends turned towards the Merge group.
@ Water: I think you’re assuming that all members of the Main Grid are adults. Mature teens are just as lured by the prospect of an adult community because they want to be able to share ideas with those who might understand them better than their peers.
@ sierra: Calling teens “little kiddies” is offensive. Would you like it if we called you “old lady”? You make the common assumption that all teens are stupid and immature, which is untrue.
@ Franja: The current Teen Grid may have five events a week, mostly sponsored by Educational islands, usually with 10 – 15 people showing up per event. The biggest event I know of was the TSL5B, which got 40 – 50 people. Office hours attract 3 – 10, depending on if the Grid Merge group comes or not. You have no reason to feel threatened by teen events.
I’d like to make some comments. Linden Lab wants to merge the grids, but i think, and they know, is not an easy process for a lot of reasons, some of them commented here. This process may take a bit or a lot, but Linden Lab has to do something with the Teen Grid soon, or it will die.
Actually i think the best for the Teen Grid Residents, who are really mature generally, will be to come to the Main Grid.
Other think Linden Lab can do is just to axe the Teen Grid, but personally i think that’s a worse solution.
From what I am seeing this reflects the reality of SL: it is slowly dying! The total number on line has stayed pretty constant at 40K-50K for over a year, while thousands of “bots” have been introduced. When I wander around now it is truly rare to see any real people in a sim. Sad to see it go, but there is little left except for a glorified chat room and wierd sex IMHO
Here’s a suggestion… add a third rating for sims. E (everybody) which incorporates all educational areas, parks etc. The owners of the sims can nominate is it is a E area. These are available to teens AND adults. Teens can’t go to adult PG or Mature sims, and adults who go to G risk losing inventory or their account if they have adult content.
Yes I know might make it worse for LL but hey… 3 grids might work *winks* or at least still maintaining segregation in certain areas.
Just because there is Teens on the main grid doesn’t mean merging is a good idea or make it right. Those teens that are on the main grid are breaking the rules to do so. It’s like using a metaphor from before, a kid sneaking into a bar with a fake ID. If caught they can be thrown out.
But I don’t know what LL is thinking about with this merge. They made the teen grid for teens to avoid issues of adults targeting teens for lewd acts. But now there allowing teens on the main grid? That don’t make sense.
I can’t find the original article/interview,
Did somebody decide to squash this item till they announce it officially or iz it just a rumor?
Or iz the link just bad?
This definitely a bad idea id it iz true.
LL age verify suckz, and pretty much flopped.
Very few adults actually verified. And the way it iz currently set up izn’t very useful.
Group members are blanketly allowed.
And there is no way for groups or individuals to check check somebody’s verify status.
Ii iz to easy for underage to verify falsely, while most adults don’t wan to for other reason.
If this izn’t fixed (in away that people will cooperate with), It will either mean an all PG grid or real underage will be participating in mature activitys with out the adult participants knowing about it.
Yeah, Cinful, you were right, it seems Metanomics changed the Permalink to the interview. I fixed it, hope they don’t change it again.
Sorry for the inconvenients.
The original article can be found here: http://www.metanomics.net/transcript011909
If the Teen Grid is dying – perhaps LL need look at the increased costs… people simply cannot afford the increases. There is was and is no reasonable reason for the cost increases. The merger will see a lot of residents leave… this will affect the sconomy and prices will climb as a result… and slowly Main Grid is being strangled by its very creators… trying to wring more cash out of the residents… and for what? An increased performance of the grid on the negative side? The lack of stability? The consistency with which logins are disabled? IT would be better for LL to resolves issues instead of putting them back onto the residents, and I speak from personal experience, and lower the prices than to merger grids.
Why dont they just make a “MidGrid”. Teens could access for their educational needs but stay off the main grid, Adults could access it if they choose but stay off the teen grid, and those who want nothing to do with any sort of intergration could go on with their own Grid activities.
*runs a query on raul’s harddrive for bear, just for the sheer amusement of it*
This may be related to the recent study that found that the actual incidence of sexual predation online is far lower than estimates by politicians and the media, and more in line with the estimates by experienced geeks. With that established, and the Supreme court whapping the censorship of online content by producers and dumping the responsibility of net-nannying onto parents … why not merge the two.
I, for one, welcome the arrival of our underage overlords.
One problem I see is that if teens are somehow restricted to the PG sims, there are a lot of technically “mature” sims that are squeaky clean content-wise. They will be missing great experiences.
I have to agree with a few of you who have already said this, but this is a horrible idea, and it’s going to lead to a lot of very bad press very quickly for Linden Labs. Here are a few major problems:
1) In the search area, there is a check box that is included in the search to include mature content. Any teen to click that and boom, they have links to BDSM, Strip clubs, the works. The only way to keep this from happening is to code it for age verification, which brings me to my next point.
2) Age verification is good in theory. But any teenager could pass linden labs their fathers drivers license or mothers and that’s that, boom, they are a verified adult. If linden labs is going to start asking for more information, for example social insurance numbers or passport numbers or more, I’m sorry, but I don’t trust any company with that information except very few and accredited places. Can someone say identity theft?
3) The major things that are keeping the adult grid alive, are creativity, and sex. What will Linden Labs do now? Ban sex? Like they did with Gambling?
I can guarantee, that if they merge the two grids together, Linden Labs can say goodbye to about 1/2 of their population, and say goodbye to another half of that half when they ban sex. Leaving them with a dying, failing game.
You teens celebrate now, but honestly, the adult grid is just like your grid, except with ADULT things included. Which Linden Labs will get rid of or try to secure with Age verification. When that happens, the Adult grid will in turn die, and we can all wave good bye to Linden Labs as they crash and destroy themselves.
I’d like to point something, any teen can find in the Internet the hardest porn without being verified, possibly harder than anything they can find in Second Life®, there all is only pixels.
I still think is the parents who have to control what their children see.
This is very sad, because everyone is all doom and gloom. I don’t see how this will change SL. There are a lot of PG areas in SL if they restrict Teen users to those places that’s good. For everyone else start using that age verification on parcels. I’d rather keep out adults who are too lazy and paranoid to get age verified. I could not care less if there are teens bouncing around the main grid! Do you honestly believe they aren’t here already? If you think they aren’t you’re a fool. I know many teens who are on the main grids and you know what? They’re more mature and civil then the adults who talk about “poop” and “shitting burgers out of their asses” using their gestures. These “adults” are much less mature then the teens and personally I would rather have teens around me then these less then mature adults who think they’re holier then everyone else.
I have to remind the Main Gridders that there are only 500-1000 active teen users. The Main Grid isn’t going to be “flooded” by teens. More like a tiny drop into a huge pond. And a restricted drop at that, as there will probably be very few sims that the teens will be able to visit. Your likelyhood of running into a teen (maybe 200 of the people online at any given time) will be very low, as there are usually around 50,000 adults online (not accounting for the ever-present bots, of course).
I have to say that a lot of Vixy’s arguments defeat themselves. Currently teens could sneak around and get age-verified. It doesn’t take a merge to do that. And LL would never ban sex if they had a choice, I think. It makes up a huge portion of their users and revenue. Even for teens, they wouldn’t get rid of it. They removed a lot of features from the Teens. They could easily keep that Mature Content checkbox from appearing, because, guess what? It doesn’t appear on the teen’s Search currently. I highly doubt they would allow teens into the MG PG sims without parental permission forms of some sort
LL knows how to do a lot of stuff we wouldn’t think they do, like making sims disappear from view and become a big void, making sims disappear off a map, keeping people from transferring items, keeping people from IM’ing unless they’re on the same island, and a lot more. They have the tech to make it work and be safe. They just need the backing of the people.
Oh, I dunno. There are pros and cons. They would have to redo the ratings on areas on the Main Grid. Add a PG-13 rating. As an example, Steelhead City has a Mature rating, but for the most part, except for a few songs played during events (no hardcore stuff, but songs that have a bad word or two) and the occasion of one of us….usually me…..getting aggravated with lag or SL issues and saying a bad word or two…it’s basically a PG-13 environment. And there are other sims that are the same way. No sex, no slaves, no items for sale that are for adults only. I think for the most part, the “Mature” is there for the music.
I can vouch that teens curse like sailors. Our chat is not filtered, and we curse pretty heavily, stuff that would make some adults blush. As long as it doesn’t go too too bad, no one really cares. Hell, we’ve cursed in front of Lindens, and they don’t care. Language, especially light, occasional language, does not an M rating make, methinks.
Well, on the comment about sexual Predators, just as he mentioned that Teens can get onto the MG, its JUST as simple for an Adult predator to get onto the TG. If they REALLY wanted to stalk teens that bad, it would be as simple as creating an account with a teenager’s age.
I’m from the teen grid, and am against the merge.
The reason is that- all mature content control put aside- there is SO many issues entirely unaddressed that would ruin Secondlife for alot of teen grid users… Due to less lindens being purchased in TSL, the L$ pool going around is very small. If we transferred over, keeping our current L$ in a grid where L$ value is different, we would suddenly become terribly poor; just look at Xstreet SL! I’ve seen a sword build priced 1.3k; here, you could get ten of those for the same price.
And then the lack of content on the TG. LL can’t just ‘give us moar contents’; all content is always user-created, that is the point of SL! Our problem is, to host it properly you need land, preferably a large amount of it. However, land tier pricing is disproportionate for teen residents; it was obviously made aiming at adults who have a considerable income already and can spend as they see fit for secondlife. Same goes for regions- the reason there is less sims here is that the land fees for a region is absolutely insane for teens! To maintain just one region we are expected to pay 200$ each month. The teens that are dedicated enough to spend this much solely on secondlife are rare, and it limits our ability to create content in that we have nowhere to put it.
But anyways, adults, you should not fear a merge, all what would happen is that the teen residents would slowly sink and vanish within the main grid. We are so small compared to what the main grid is, it would probably not make much difference for you, only we could not access mature rated areas, which, from the looks of the opinions of MGers on this blog, some adults will abuse to lock off teens of areas that could be PG on the assumption that all teens are immature griefers.
Anyways, the merge seems like a cheap excuse to stop hosting the teen grid and focus on the main grid by LL, probably because the teen grid doesn’t really pay off so much at all for them, and an easy way to have the teens stop complaining about the lack of attention from LL that seems to be put on the teengrid.
Like the above poster, I am also from the TG and I am also against the Grid Merge. I honestly think the Lindens to be stupid if this rumor is true, mainly because of the original reasons the TG was created. I know a girl, who will remain nameless, who was attacked by an adult sexual predator on a different game and she had told me it changed her and her life. The Grids should remain the way they are, but with some more attention given to the TG for a while. There is far less land in the TG, the pricing to buy it is through the roof for teens (who if they hold jobs are likely to get £100 a month in wages, which is nowhere near enough to pay for a large piece of land or region, for example). The Lindens should seriously consider making Land-use fees less for teenagers and also make a XStreet SL for teenagers to use.
I do not agree with adults, even approved adults, to be allowed on the TG. It’s just not right because it’s amazing what some adults would do to prey on teenagers. I know that not all adults are evil or twisted, but it would just be an open doorway for those that are.
And also, the amount of griefers and spammers on the TG is huge. I don’t think I’ve ever seen the amount of object littering as I have in the Sandbox Regions. Teens flooding a region on purpose to make it lag like crazy and to fill it up with pointless objects. And they find it funny to do so! It’s incredibly irritating. The adults in the MG will just get annoyed with us and beg for the merge to have never happened. We’d just end up on the TG again anyway.
Well, I’m going to stop writing my views and opinions of the Grid Merge now as you’re probably fed up with my very long comment. Bye
It’s not necessarily as to why, but when. Linden Labs has been talking about the Grid Merge since January, when they announced that they would merge the grids. It’s been quite some time since then, and nothing has really happened to indicate the merge. Of course, myself being on the TG, I’m watching as griefers destroy the mainland regions. And anyone on the TG would have to agree that griefers are ruining TSL, and Linden Labs seems to be doing nothing about it. The TG is decaying due to lack of content, like Crowe’s comment. At the same time, there are sex predators on SL, like Midnight’s comment said, but these people can be easily dealt with.
Educators are having difficulty teaching students on TSL due to the age barrier (let alone the fact that most Educational Sims remain empty and if not, pointless). The sky-high prices for land are insane for us teens. They expect us to pay an arm and a leg for land! And the TG is basically entirely PG, but people still get away with non-PG stuff, so what difference would it make? A nine-year-old looking for something innocent on Google today would result in finding pornos. And most us teens are actually far more mature than some adults have been convinced to believe. Rather, those of us that are mature on the TG look at such annoying activities as being dumb and foolish. It’d be blatantly obvious that adults wouldn’t want us around, but there’s only about 500-1000 of us, like a comment above said. What difference would it make? Then there’s the fact that several teens have alternate accounts on the MG, and only a small portion of us 500-1000 teens even have alternate accounts on the MG. And the teens that are on the MG are probably almost invisible due to how rare they are. And, there’s a lot of copybotted or opensourced content on the TG that originated on the MG, since we lack good content, some of us decided to steal from the MG. And our golden cage like someone said earlier, is decaying. Some of the land on the TG is losing worth, and lots of land is for sale, but residents of TSL that can even afford any land at all are rare, and the ones that do own land usually have only a small portion of land. And again, it’s not necessarily “how” or “why”. We know Linden Labs will. We just don’t know when. Evidently Linden Labs wants to keep it confidential as their “little secret”. If Linden Labs won’t merge the grids, the least they could or can do is make land for us teens more affordable.
I think this is a grate thing, and i think they are doing it for two reasons, one lindens cant stop teens from making fake accounts on main grid and two, for the people, like me, who have an abundant amount of friends who have transferred to main grid. I rilly do beleave this is a grate opportunity as well for the teens, and besides, i own land in second life and there is an option to only let age verified adults into certain areas, and most likely the lindens are coming up with a way to block out any adult scene to the public. I, my self, is ecstatic about this possibility.
one thing i forgot to put in my last comment, adult predators are no more dangerous in second life than they are in Myspace or Facebook, people should be smart enough not to give out any real info about them, and even if the lindens don’t merge the grids, how are they going to stop the predictors from making fake accounts on teen grid, if you ask me it actually makes it easier for predators to find people and teens if there is a teen grid AND a main grid
Please keep in mind that, as of late, the Teen Grid has been a cess pool of copybotting, and other manners of content stealing. I, for one, would feel it best for the Lindens to finally merge the grids and stop this madness already. I hate seeing all the copybotted junk on the Teen Grid, and it infuriates me when they do, because they invalidate the worth of the object copybotted on the MG, and make it illegal on the Teen Grid. Furthermore, the Teen Grid has decreased in size the most in 2009, and it remains to be seen when the southern sims will stop disappearing like this. Also, what has the MG to worry about, when the TG is very small, and where the MG has over 10 million residents, the TG only has about 2000 something residents- a number that continually decreases due to people losing interest in the TG due to a lack of content, or legitimate content. LL needs to realize that they must do something to stop the TG from sucking the MG into it, before it’s too late.
Really, I’m not against, It has its pros and cons, and pretty much teens that play SL, are mature, more than adults, and the adults whine about that, They really don’t have a problem with it when teens sign-up as an adult (I’ve done it before), besides, some teens are very helpful, and they can’t use that on the TG, cause that is basically a dustbowl, cause they can’t do anything, they are limited, on the MG, they can do anything, which makes the grid thrive. And their is not any fun on the TG. I’m not saying their don’t have anything to spend, they do, I’m an example. I have some linden, but their isn’t really anything to buy. Besides, what the adults who own stores don’t know is that their store will thrive more, cause the Teens will buy stuff left to right. Besides, it wouldn’t be bad, some of the adults are just worry about their “Sex” business. I’m pretty sure that LL is making it where Teen Acc. can’t go into Mature areas. If you have a big, I mean a BIG problem with it, just change your land to Mature. But anyways their aren’t many Teens that play SL left. The TG grid is so dull that Teens don’t get on SL anymore. The real problem with is Adult Preditors, but that’s the responsibilties of the Parents. This is pretty much the decision for the Parents to decide, cause the Grid Merge is happening.
… and finally, after 1 year and 8 months they announce it in the Linden blogs…
I joined the Teen Grid at age 14, and I must admit that I tried to sneak into the MG (registration was more difficult back in 05) but I eventually gave up and spent all five years in the TG before transferring. In the beginning of the TG the place was empty, but I learned how to create content and got better and better. Never sold anything. And by the time I was almost 18, I was very good at creating content and was planning to maybe sell stuff. Then I was zapped into the MG, where I sold content there instead. Many good creators transferred, and that’s why the TG economy and content can never improve. Also, I avoid adult content in the MG, it isn’t my thing. From what I remember, TGers that are atleast 16 years of age will stay, the rest of the accounts being frozen until they are of age. I may be wrong, just what I heard. I honestly believe that 16 year olds can make their own choice if they want to see adult things or not by now, they already do so outside of SL. I think that the whole age-verification things should handle things well, if that is involved. I honestly don’t see any chaos here. Online predators are of concern, the people who are of legal age can be in a lot more trouble.